Curse

Squishy ftw · Sep 02, 2011, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Psychic Instability is still my preferred elite by quite a bit. A 4sec aoe KD on a very fast recharge is just too good for me to ignore. Add random other mesmer goody stuff (I usually go illusion) and you're set.

PI also interrupts actions, adding the the already high awesomeness.

Soryuju · Sep 02, 2011, 07:11 PM // 19:11

It is true that Panic is best against large mobs, but I don't think that means a Panic build can't be used effectively in general PvE. I myself run a Panic Nuker that has blown through EotN in HM without any real difficulty. This is the build I used:

OQBDApwTS0A3U2gmO2iAV5UtlA

The runes are Minor Fast Casting, Major Domination (on headgear), and Minor Inspiration.

Usage is pretty simple. Cast Panic into the middle of the mob, and follow up with WD. Follow that up with CoP on the same target, scoring you an interrupt (ensuring that WD can continue) and a nice chunk of extra damage. Follow immediately after with Unnatural Signet for an extra mini-spike. This combination comprises the bulk of the damage. If you can keep mobs close together and prevent the victim of WD from using skills, they tend to just melt.

The remaining skills on the bar are there to ensure that the mob does stay close, and to make sure that the target is completely incapacitated for the duration of WD. After casting WD+CoP+US on a target, you can continue with Web of Disruption for another interrupt, keeping WD's damage stacking. Follow up with Drain Delusions on the target, and you'll pull Web of Disruption off again, providing yet another interrupt. By this point, WD will have just hit the 50 damage mark, and DD will return 16 energy. Your skills will come off cooldown in a few seconds after this, and you can do it all over again.

Tryptophan Signet and Technobabble are counters against enemies problematic for the build, and help maximize the efficiency of Panic. Tryptophan helps keep enemies balled up, allowing Panic to interrupt more enemies, but it also can let you pull of WD on melee enemies, if necessary. Usually, melee enemies cast skills too quickly for WD to be useful, and it's a gamble even with Panic. Tryptophan Signet solves this problem indirectly, however. An enemy that's moving isn't using skills, so by forcing them to spend more time moving, you can help ensure that WD does respectable damage to your target. Technobabble, on the other hand, is great for wrecking enemy spellcasters who cast quickly enough to slip through Panic. Besides allowing Panic to interrupt these casters more frequently, Daze can help make minions something of a nightmare for your target, since it causes regular attacks to interrupt.

While the choice is ultimately yours, I personally wouldn't write off a Panic build. I rarely feel at a loss for options with this build, because it can do something to counter almost every type of enemy you'll face, and you can deal some pretty serious damage in the process. Whatever you choose to go with, though, I wish you the best of luck!

Tess80 · Sep 07, 2011, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Personally, I usually go with an Illusion build. The one on wiki isn't all that great though. I usually use:

Illusion: 12+1+3, Inspiration: 9+1, fast Casting: 9+1
Ineptitude
Wandering Eye
Signet of Clumsiness
Cry of Pain
Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
Technobabble
Arcane Conundrum
Drain Delusions

EVAS and Technobabble are not staples though and can be replaced for anything the situation requires. Works well in combination with a Panic hero. Energy is not a problem if you're smart with DD. If you can, open with AC on a group.

As for other mesmer builds, I'm surprised noone here suggested an AP nuker. Not my personal favorite, but it can be pretty effective in some situations.

scoutct6 · Sep 10, 2011, 06:31 AM // 06:31

While there are lots of harassment builds out there for a mesmer, especially illusion magic for loads of degens, if you want more damaging power than the usual EVAS/YMLaD combo, you could try a Signet of Illusions build.

Pain Surgeon

Fast casting- 8+1+2
Illusion Magic- 12+3
Inspiration- 10

Signet of Illusions
Renewing Surge
Illusion of Pain
Spirit Rift
Accumulated Pain
Ether Phantom
Drain Delusions
Energy Feast

I use a me/rt combo because Spirit is one of the most potent spike skills out there, without eating too much energy, on top of that, i combine renewing surge and illusion of pain to deal 12(RS)+ 10(IoP) dmg per second and -10 hp degeneration (Thats provided if you remember to use Signet of illusions before casting the spells). Accumulated Pain is an added spike skill causing +75 dmg and a deep wound to the intended target due to the 2 hexes.

in total, its possible to deal +500 dmg in roughly 10 seconds, possibly killing the target at the same time.

Calista Blackblood · Sep 10, 2011, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoutct6

While there are lots of harassment builds out there for a mesmer, especially illusion magic for loads of degens, if you want more damaging power than the usual EVAS/YMLaD combo, you could try a Signet of Illusions build.

Pain Surgeon

Fast casting- 8+1+2
Illusion Magic- 12+3
Inspiration- 10

Signet of Illusions
Renewing Surge
Illusion of Pain
Spirit Rift
Accumulated Pain
Ether Phantom
Drain Delusions
Energy Feast

I use a me/rt combo because Spirit is one of the most potent spike skills out there, without eating too much energy, on top of that, i combine renewing surge and illusion of pain to deal 12(RS)+ 10(IoP) dmg per second and -10 hp degeneration (Thats provided if you remember to use Signet of illusions before casting the spells). Accumulated Pain is an added spike skill causing +75 dmg and a deep wound to the intended target due to the 2 hexes.

in total, its possible to deal +500 dmg in roughly 10 seconds, possibly killing the target at the same time.

500dmg to a single target over 10 seconds isn't as spectacular as the aoe damage that Keystone,Ineptitude and ESurge bars pump out.

<10 seconds on a mob,not 10 seconds on 1 target.

15 curses (doable with SOI,the astute will see that my char is in fact a necro) 15 sec lifespan of ebon sin, 3 kills within 15 seconds.

scoutct6 · Sep 10, 2011, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Not, if your target has like 800+ hp there. That build is designed specifically for single target concentrated dmg, while spiking the target.

I'm against aoe, since most of it is just DoT, and fairly spread out. Already being able to spam that combo every 15 seconds on a single target is definately much more effective than spamming aoes every like what 30 seconds? Plus - if and when mobs kite and spread apart, AoE is basically useless in situations such as those.

Ebon vanguard sin support is unreliable, though useful in some situations. the assassin dies too quickly even if at max rank. it also has a tendency to switch to another target if summoned on a target with other mobs bunching around it, also has a horrible long recharge time of 30s seconds. i can deal more damage in just 10.

MoP's only good (i say again) IF the intended mobs are bunched together AND if they don't spread, useful, but agagain unreliable. If you could find away to double up death blossom, like what hundred blades does, then yes its feasible. Honestly id rather waste my skill slot for something spammable than MoP.

Yeah, i do agree that the necro build would work in high mob areas, but i would'nt take it unless absolutely necessary. Better to have a mix of people specialising in different stuff than hybrid it all up at the same.

Calista Blackblood · Sep 10, 2011, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoutct6

Not, if your target has like 800+ hp there. That build is designed specifically for single target concentrated dmg, while spiking the target.

Try to remember that you are never the only damage dealer on the team.

Quote:

I'm against aoe, since most of it is just DoT, and fairly spread out. Already being able to spam that combo every 15 seconds on a single target is definately much more effective than spamming aoes every like what 30 seconds? Plus - if and when mobs kite and spread apart, AoE is basically useless in situations such as those.

If mobs are kiting your damage output is too low,too slow or both. This is certainly the case with single target oriented bars. Why would anyone think that being "ready to spam a combo every 15 seconds" is good? Because it is far from it. Air Of Superiority fixes recharge

Quote:

Ebon vanguard sin support is unreliable, though useful in some situations. the assassin dies too quickly even if at max rank. it also has a tendency to switch to another target if summoned on a target with other mobs bunching around it, also has a horrible long recharge time of 30s seconds. i can deal more damage in just 10.

It reliably lives long enough in most cases to do it's job very well. Relook at the screen,did you notice that there are 3 dead targets within the lifespan of Ebon Sin,yet you're spending 10 seconds watching 1 die to degen?

Quote:

MoP's only good IF the intended mobs are bunched together AND if they don't spread, useful, but agagain unreliable. If you could find away to double up death blossom, like what hundred blades does, then yes its feasible. Honestly id rather waste my skill slot for something spammable than MoP.

Adjacent range is quite large so as long as your physical damage triggers are fast/plentiful enough there is rarely an issue at all. Like I said above,slow/low damage output will cause scatter,Firestorm is an example of this.

Mark of Pain is an excellent skill(and one of the best in the game when used right) to use when you have the ability to have any form of physical damage. MoP damage output scales with the team as you can increase the damage output by simply having more physical damage triggers. Efficiency and scalability go hand in hand,your single target degen bars add nothing of modifiable worth to a team,if anything they hinder progress greatly.

scoutct6 · Sep 12, 2011, 07:13 AM // 07:13

First off, you read me wrong - i never mentioned that i was the only damage dealer on the team - that would just be utterly idiotic. I'm just refering to this build, alone. With the combined power of other people on the team of course the target would go down alot quicker. I also DID mentioned that quote it is - "Better to have a mix of people specialising in different stuff."

Secondly, each skill has its advantages and disadvantages. I am weighing them in a AoE vs Single Target Situation. Especially when it comes to overall recharge times, cast times and the damage output.

Thirdly Air of superiority is a PvE skill. What if the player has not reached that far into game to get that skill? What if the player does not even have EoTN? And hence my builds focus on non-PvE skills for this reason: so it can be used by anyone - universally. Depending on just these types of skills really limits the things you can do on a build. Seriously, please be abit more creative.

Fourthly, the targets you tested the ebon sin are just Dummy Targets. they won't move, nor retaliate in anyway. In real combat, where stuff getting chaotic the ebon sin would instantly get killed in ANY hardmode situations simply because it has a lower AR, and lower health. Single Target damage is definitely more reliable in taking down an annoying mob- be it a mesmer or the monk, instead of hexing it with Mark Of Pain or Barbs and hoping it die from a stray arrow.

FoxBat · Sep 12, 2011, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Em doesn't DwG + Rift deal more damage than SoI... on a mesmer primary at that...

Outerworld · Sep 12, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoutct6

Thirdly Air of superiority is a PvE skill. What if the player has not reached that far into game to get that skill? What if the player does not even have EoTN? And hence my builds focus on non-PvE skills for this reason: so it can be used by anyone - universally. Depending on just these types of skills really limits the things you can do on a build. Seriously, please be abit more creative.

You've got it the wrong way round, a build that doesn't use PvE skills is limited in comparison to one that does. It's pretty safe to assume that the vast majority of people nowdays have all campaigns and have access to PvE skills. You don't have to use them if you don't want to but please don't try the "I'm being creative" argument to claim it as superior. PvE skills are optimal on all skill bars; there's no real ground from which you could argue otherwise.

Axel Zinfandel · Sep 12, 2011, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I never understood why everyone loves AoS. I really don't like relying on a skill that has a 10% chance of making my build viable. It's just plain silly.

People forget that balling enemies and nuking with AoE isn't the only way to play the game. Is it the most effective? probably. Personally, I find that targeting key enemies to defeat mobs a lot more satisfying.

Cuilan · Sep 12, 2011, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoutct6

Secondly, each skill has its advantages and disadvantages.

Single Target damage is definitely more reliable in taking down an annoying mob- be it a mesmer or the monk, instead of hexing it with Mark Of Pain or Barbs and hoping it die from a stray arrow.

I'm not aware of any advantages to Ether Phantom.

Players taking specific advantage of Mark of Pain are likely hitting a lot more than an arrow at foes.

scoutct6 · Sep 13, 2011, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

You've got it the wrong way round, a build that doesn't use PvE skills is limited in comparison to one that does. It's pretty safe to assume that the vast majority of people nowdays have all campaigns and have access to PvE skills. You don't have to use them if you don't want to but please don't try the "I'm being creative" argument to claim it as superior. PvE skills are optimal on all skill bars; there's no real ground from which you could argue otherwise.

So technically, you're saying that there isn't any room for creativity when we're given a whole bunch of skills to play around that? Because there is no one way to do things from what i know. And yes, PvE skills are useful, but not entirely. id use something more spammable than something which has a 30 second recharge. You'd disagree, and then I'd tell you thats how I play, and then we'd get into this arguement about different playstyles. Please lets no get into that, for everyone's sake.

Quote:

Players taking specific advantage of Mark of Pain are likely hitting a lot more than an arrow at foes.

Put it this way, if you had a team of casters spamming 2 second recharge time spells on a target, and if they used non physical attacks, would Mark of Pain be at all useful? Nope.

If you had a fight against large groups of mobs, and everyone's doing something else than hitting the hex target would that be useful? I would'nt think so..

Common sense shows how unreliable mark of pain when you are the one casting it , with no one around taking advantage of its effects. But yeah, putting this aside, i run mark of pain too, but thats only when i certainly DO know when there is someone to trigger it - and that's myself. Either a Warrior/Necro with Hundred Blades or an Assassin/Necro spamming Death Blossom.

Premium Unleaded · Sep 13, 2011, 04:16 PM // 16:16

You may be surprised how much damage a few procs of MoP from even one person spearing can do in relation to, say someone using SF. Cuilan also stated "Players taking specific advantage of Mark of Pain are likely hitting a lot more than an arrow at foes.", meaning building around MoP and not just some uncontrollable random mishmash of 8 which one would usually get pugging.

Elfblade · Sep 13, 2011, 04:42 PM // 16:42

I dont get how you conclude that there is no room for creativity, there is plenty. Creativity does not equal better than meta/OP bars. Its fine you post your build and show how creative you are but if your build only pumps out 500 dmg every 10 seconds (mostly to 1 target) dont expect applause. as Calista pointed out the meta bars esurge/keystone/inepitude/AP deal way more damage and even AOE. Again awesome you are creative and have the guts to post the build.

I do want to point out that there are flaws in your reasoning why single target damage is better than AOE. AOE (especially mop/esurge/etc..) is meant to wipe out most if not all of the mob in 1 go. killing them 1 by 1 takes longer and you are more vunerable to damage. All this does take into consideration you are actually able to ball properly the spreading of mobs doesnt matter .

Put it this would you rather floor the group within in 10-20 seconds and take a minimum amount of damage or do you want to take your time and take them out 1 by 1. There is a grey line though you can still mix single target damage with AOE damage. In the end it boils down to what clears faster as that is what is important in the pve world of guildwars if you want to discuss builds and clearly using mop/Op shit(pve skills) do this much better than a player running a bar that only deals 500 damage in 10 seconds

Take this next line as a joke but i would not rather have a team of casters casting 2 second recharge spell as that is most likely discord.

scoutct6 · Sep 13, 2011, 07:51 PM // 19:51

It seems that everyone here thinks this build does'nt do crap compared to actual results I've seen, both in PvE and PvP. And from what i'm gathering it is highly underestimated.

Let me rephrase the main point of it then. Please note I'm placing this in a combat scenario, and not a training dummy one.

This build's objective is to spike the target hard and fast, such that it would'nt have time to react to heal up. And once it does, it's too late to do a self heal - as the target would die from the degeneration hexes and the added damage from other team members doing to it.

However anyone, myself included would go with an AoE spike with massive destructive power. its like pushing the big red button of death. But is there any one skill which literally kills the target with just that?

No. And my answer to that problem, is to combine the hardest hitting skills and compress it into a single bar, such that there would not be any point in bringing in other pure spike builds - You're literally self proclaiming as the team designated spiker .

Team builds excel at spiking. However, it takes time to setup and alot of coordination needs to take place for it to go smoothly. In PvE, this is rarely the case. Things becomes too fast and too chaotic because mobs unpredictably switch targets too quickly. Trust me when i say this - I myself have tried to coordinate "formations' or even "team spikes" but, most if not all of them fail.

I'll rest my case here, i simply can't get everyone to agree with me since we all have different views.

If you doubt the build? Try it. You don't want to? Its out of my hands. And if you did try it but don't like it, move on.

Calista Blackblood · Sep 14, 2011, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoutct6

It seems that everyone here thinks this build does'nt do crap compared to actual results I've seen, both in PvE and PvP. And from what i'm gathering it is highly underestimated.

Let me rephrase the main point of it then. Please note I'm placing this in a combat scenario, and not a training dummy one.

This build's objective is to spike the target hard and fast, such that it would'nt have time to react to heal up. And once it does, it's too late to do a self heal - as the target would die from the degeneration hexes and the added damage from other team members doing to it.

Please,just stop. It's not a matter of just thinking the build is crap,it is crap and misinformative.

Quote:

However anyone, myself included would go with an AoE spike with massive destructive power. its like pushing the big red button of death. But is there any one skill which literally kills the target with just that?

No. And my answer to that problem, is to combine the hardest hitting skills and compress it into a single bar, such that there would not be any point in bringing in other pure spike builds - You're literally self proclaiming as the team designated spiker .

Quote:

in total, its possible to deal +500 dmg in roughly 10 seconds, possibly killing the target at the same time.

Hate to tell you that circa 50dps over 10 seconds is NOT a spike of any kind. Nor is it "hard and fast"

Quote:

Team builds excel at spiking. However, it takes time to setup and alot of coordination needs to take place for it to go smoothly. In PvE, this is rarely the case. Things becomes too fast and too chaotic because mobs unpredictably switch targets too quickly. Trust me when i say this - I myself have tried to coordinate "formations' or even "team spikes" but, most if not all of them fail.

Yes team builds,not one build loaded with some of the most terrible mesmer skills in the game,that doesn't even scale with team damage output nor improve it.

Quote:

I'll rest my case here, i simply can't get everyone to agree with me since we all have different views.

You really don't have a case,your build is awful and has never been nor will it ever be anything different.

ps:I truly regret not being able to introduce a build vetting system.

Cuilan · Sep 14, 2011, 04:46 AM // 04:46

A build with three degeneration and degen-like skills isn't a spike. Degeneration is capped and I don't know if you mean Energy Tap or Ether Feast when you list Energy Feast on the bar.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...93&postcount=5
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...81&postcount=9
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=16
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=12
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...6&postcount=27

Creativity is awesome and in some way it's nice you defend your skill choices, but stop claiming poor builds as somehow amazing or the next big thing.

Improvavel · Sep 14, 2011, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoutct6

It seems that everyone here thinks this build does'nt do crap compared to actual results I've seen, both in PvE and PvP. And from what i'm gathering it is highly underestimated.

We don't think - we know. Of course people in here define results as fastest possible kill time. Of course there several other builds that will accomplish the same end result of killing a mob, some only slightly slower, others much slower. These builds can be used for several reasons, most likely to grant the user personal satisfaction.

Regardless for efficiency, the damage skills pecking order:

1st) Armor ignoring AoE skills (with largest possible area). Skills that cause cracked armor and/or skills that have armor penetration in combination with cracked armor can also be viable.

2nd) Armor ignoring single target skills. Skills that cause cracked armor and/or skills that have armor penetration combined with cracked armor can also be viable.

Deep Wound and cracked armor, preferably AoE, somewhere.

If your skill is a damage skill and does nothing from above, it better have some really powerful/useful secondary effect. If it doesn't replace it with one of the following:

- Enemy shutdown, preferably AoE. Only really useful in a few circumstances.

- Party wide damage mitigation and/or party wide healing.

- If party relies on characters that need to hit enemies for its damage, hex/condition/enemy defense removal might be adequate - preferably AoE/multiple removal.

- Party wide movement speed boost and other utilities like rez, etc.

- If you still have a slots to fill probably you are an ER Protter or a Monk.

scoutct6 · Sep 14, 2011, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

A build with three degeneration and degen-like skills isn't a spike. Degeneration is capped and I don't know if you mean Energy Tap or Ether Feast when you list Energy Feast on the bar.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...93&postcount=5
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...81&postcount=9
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=16
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=12
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...6&postcount=27

Creativity is awesome and in some way it's nice you defend your skill choices, but stop claiming poor builds as somehow amazing or the next big thing.

Did you really go through all that trouble just to point out the 'fantastically epic fail" builds that i've posted? Or was that part of trolling?

I don't see how this is 'claiming poor builds as somehow amazing or the next big thing".

I'm just sharing my ideas, is that too much to ask?

Is this forum so stifled that it can't even take in a couple of 'fresh' ideas for a change?

I'm not asking you to agree with me. But in my honest opinion, taking 'poorer' builds to a hard mode and making it out alive is definitely a heck of a lot more satisfying than using Meta builds or what have you because in the end, its a game - no one's killing themselves just because they flunked in that.

Please for God's sake, try something different for a change and stop doing speed clears with all your preset PvX builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

Please,just stop. It's not a matter of just thinking the build is crap,it is crap and misinformative.

I truly salute you.

Please, read it closer. again. i have NEVER said the degen hexes are meant as a spike, i have clearly stated in my first post that the spike skills are Spirit's Rift and Accumulated Pain. those degen skills you keep pointing out are just degens.

Quote:

Hate to tell you that circa 50dps over 10 seconds is NOT a spike of any kind. Nor is it "hard and fast"

"hard and fast" comes from Spirit's Rift, Accumulated Pain and deep wound. that last minute 20% hp removal from your bar is a spike.

Quote:

You really don't have a case,your build is awful and has never been nor will it ever be anything different.

I never did have a case, i was just presenting my idea of a build, what's wrong with that? And did you really think i would ever care about what you say about my build?

No. I stand by my beliefs and you have no grounds in making me think otherwise. You're just being an ignorant and self righteous idiot for even imagining that. Never will anyone especially you for that matter will change my ideals.

Yes, I am stubborn in this way. You could go ahead pm'ing everyone that i'm the worse build maker ever lived, but that would just prove that you're trying to save your ego - We both know that's not going to happen.

Quote:

ps:I truly regret not being able to introduce a build vetting system.

And i regret there isn't enough people like me trying to make things more interesting in guild wars. Touche.

As for everyone out there who isn't afraid to post their 'horrible' builds, please do more. We need a lot more ideas than just one sided meta ones - it makes guild wars infinitely more interesting and challenging.